Drew Moffitt
ARMS
Available Lines of Communication
Doctor email
Nurse email
Nurse email
Direct line to doctor
Direct line to nurse
Direct line to nurse
Doctor personal cell phone
Medical SchoolUCLA
ResidencyUCLA
FellowshipEastern Virginia Jones
Gilbert
2730 S. Val Vista Dr.
Gilbert, AZ 85295
(602) 351-5327
Phoenix
1701 E. Thomas Rd.
Phoenix, AZ 85016
(602) 351-5327
11 assessments
5
Age
33
Treated
2017
Success with this Doc
No
Treatment
3 IUI, 1 IVF
Diagnosis
Diminished Ovarian Reserve, Male Factor
5
He [Dr. Moffitt] allowed a double but suggested a single [embryo transfer]...He was knowledgeable but blunt. He did not take suggestions from me well and wanted to stick to his same protocol. He allowed a dual embryo transfer after we signed an against medical advice form but recommended a single...Birth control for 6 days, 450 units of FSH and then cetritite once follicles hit a certain point. Stayed on stims for almost two weeks before trigger shot and retrieval. The office does freeze only with frozen transfers.
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Age
33
Treated
2017
Success with this Doc
No
Race
European
Income
$50K - $99K
Occupation
—
Order & Number of Docs Seen
2nd of 3 Docs
Treatment
3 IUI, 1 IVF
Diagnosis
Diminished Ovarian Reserve, Male Factor
5
How was your experience with Drew Moffitt at ARMS?
He was knowledgeable but blunt. He did not take suggestions from me well and wanted to stick to his same protocol. He allowed a dual embryo transfer after we signed an against medical advice form but recommended a single.
What's one piece of advice would you give a prospective patient of Drew Moffitt at ARMS?
Stand up for yourself. If you are not comfortable going through with a procedure, don’t allow yourself to get bullied into it.
During treatment, were you treated like a number or a human with Drew Moffitt at ARMS?
Ultrasound rooms have two connected bathrooms. You get put in one and asked to get undressed from waist down. When you hear a knock on the door, you walk to the table and get on while the doctor and nurse are in the room and the last patient was put back in the other bathroom to get dressed. The doctor went from patient to patient with little time in between.
Describe the protocols Drew Moffitt used in your cycles at ARMS and their degree of success.
Birth control for 6 days, 450 units of FSH and then cetritite once follicles hit a certain point. Stayed on stims for almost two weeks before trigger shot and retrieval. The office does freeze only with frozen transfers.
Describe your experience with your nurse at ARMS.
We were assigned a primary nurse but that person changed during our treatment. They were knowledgeable and nice. One nurse drew blood perfectly but the others struggled with me... once, it took 9 sticks and the anesthesiologist to draw my blood.
Describe your experience with ARMS.
We felt like a number and not a person. The protocol is used on everyone and they batch patients so their rounds all start at the same time. They offered a discount which is why we did the retrieval there but we will not be going back.
Describe the costs associated with your care under Drew Moffitt at ARMS.
Base IVF price was $5500 plus ICSI was another $2000. PGS was not recommended. Anastesia and cryo were extra.
Describe Drew Moffitt's approach to eSET (elective single embryo transfer) vs. multiple embryo transfer at ARMS.
He allowed a double but suggested a single.
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8
Age
33 - 38
Treated
2012 - 2017
Success with this Doc
Yes
Treatment
1 IUI, 1 IVF
Diagnosis
Unexplained
8
Dr Moffitt provided good information, but also omitted information that I feel would have helped me make better informed decisions. He however was responsive to my concerns and had regulated lab procedures that were not being followed by phlebotomists fixed when I brought them to his attention. He provided his cell phone so I could call him directly if needed...Drew was a straight shooter, but I felt like his bedside manner was lacking a bit. If a patient is looking for a lot of hand holding, this may not be the doctor for them.
+ Read more
Age
33 - 38
Treated
2012 - 2017
Success with this Doc
Yes
Race
European
Income
—
Occupation
—
Order & Number of Docs Seen
1 Doc Seen
Treatment
1 IUI, 1 IVF
Diagnosis
Unexplained
8
How was your experience with Drew Moffitt at ARMS?
Drew was a straight shooter, but I felt like his bedside manner was lacking a bit. If a patient is looking for a lot of hand holding, this may not be the doctor for them. Ultimately I had a positive pregnancy test with my first FET and we got more eggs than he expected, so I'm overall satisfied. He also responded to my calls and texts after hours and on weekends. I just always felt like a nuisance when contacting him directly. I suppose that's my own issue.
What's one piece of advice would you give a prospective patient of Drew Moffitt at ARMS?
Do research in advance so you know what questions to ask as you may not be fully informed when leaving the office.
During treatment, were you treated like a number or a human with Drew Moffitt at ARMS?
Dr Moffitt provided good information, but also omitted information that I feel would have helped me make better informed decisions. He however was responsive to my concerns and had regulated lab procedures that were not being followed by phlebotomists fixed when I brought them to his attention. He provided his cell phone so I could call him directly if needed. I felt like the nurses sometime took a bit too long to respond, but that could have just been from IVF induced anxiety.
Describe the protocols Drew Moffitt used in your cycles at ARMS and their degree of success.
Age 38. For egg retrieval 900iu of Follistim. Lupron instead of birth control due to prior DVT. hCG. Vitamin D (6,000 IU), prenatal, Qoq10, and DHEA (25mg, 3x daily).
For FET, started with progesterone lozenges (200mg, 3x daily) and Endometrum suppositories (100mg, 3x daily). 2 Estradiol patches replaced every other day. Progesterone was only 39.4 day before transfer and he wanted it at 40, so added oral progesterone capsules (200mg, 3x daily).
Describe your experience with your nurse at ARMS. (Assigned nurse: Tabitha)
I felt like the written protocol was confusing and hard to follow. Sometimes Tabitha took longer to respond to me via email and voice mail than expected. When my husband expressed to her that I was feeling lost and like they didn't care, she stepped up her game and was much more responsive. Whenever o dealt with Gail she was amazing.
Describe your experience with ARMS.
Employees sometimes argued in front of patients. Phlebotomists did not label vials in front of patient until I brought that to Dr Moffitt 'a attention.
Scheduling was easy. Wait time was very low.
Describe the costs associated with your care under Drew Moffitt at ARMS.
Insurance paid everything after I met my out of pocket max of $5,000.
Describe Drew Moffitt's approach to eSET (elective single embryo transfer) vs. multiple embryo transfer at ARMS.
Dr highly encouraged eSET.
What specific things went wrong at ARMS?
- Failed to order appropriate test
- Provided conflicting information
- Failed to convey critical information
- Failed to consider drug intolerance
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4
Age
38 - 39
Treated
2016 - 2017
Success with this Doc
No
Treatment
1 IVF
Diagnosis
Recurrent Pregnancy Loss, PCOS, Tubal Blockage
4
Sometimes he [Dr. Moffitt] was spot on, helpful, remembered who I am, thoughtful in his delivery of information. Other times, it's like he didn't even read the chart before coming in to see me...His bedside manner could use some work and there's an issue with being consistent in how he treats you...we asked a lot of questions and at least half the time were blown off with "that's really not necessary to answer" or something similar...Nothing in the process is fully explained up front in a manner that is easy to understand.
+ Read more
Age
38 - 39
Treated
2016 - 2017
Success with this Doc
No
Race
Other
Income
$100K - $199K
Occupation
—
Order & Number of Docs Seen
1 Doc Seen
Treatment
1 IVF
Diagnosis
Recurrent Pregnancy Loss, PCOS, Tubal Blockage
4
How was your experience with Drew Moffitt at ARMS?
His bedside manner could use some work and there's an issue with being consistent in how he treats you. Yes, patients on hormones are intense and/or emotional. The IVF process is hard to go through. Just a bit more sympathy would go a long way. Also, we asked a lot of questions and at least half the time were blown off with "that's really not necessary to answer" or something similar. Maybe it's not something to him because he knows but it's our first time, so we have a lot of questions that should be answered, silly or not.
What's one piece of advice would you give a prospective patient of Drew Moffitt at ARMS?
Nice guy, good at his job, but don't expect any sort of coddling.
During treatment, were you treated like a number or a human with Drew Moffitt at ARMS?
Sometimes he was spot on, helpful, remembered who I am, thoughtful in his delivery of information. Other times, it's like he didn't even read the chart before coming in to see me. I know that all doctors have lots of patients but I want to be treated like the unique person I am.
Describe the protocols Drew Moffitt used in your cycles at ARMS and their degree of success.
The egg retrieval was done very smoothly. I didn't initially have enough of one medication and then I ended up with too much of a different medication. But the appointments went smoothly and the instructions for doing the injections was easy enough. I produced a lot of eggs but when they reduce by half each step of the process, I didn't end of with many viable embryos.
Describe your experience with your nurse at ARMS. (Assigned nurse: Was Shana, now Caylyn)
They communicate a lot as long as you're asking questions. It can be extremely difficult to get a hold of them. There isn't a lot of communication that starts from their end.
Describe your experience with ARMS.
Nothing in the process is fully explained up front in a manner that is easy to understand. I know it's complicated but pretend that I know nothing because I really didn't. There were a lot of additional costs that aren't covered in the initial financial visit. It's hard to access how much funding you need if they don't give you a complete picture of what may be needed and the costs associated with those procedures. The person who handles the billing is probably the most unhelpful person in the entire office. If your insurance covers anything, you will need to tell her how to code it to be covered. They forget to tell you that medication is typically covered by insurance after you become pregnant, so make sure you check your insurance and get the pre-authorization sent to the clinic by your pharmacy. The appointments usually start more or less on time.
Describe the costs associated with your care under Drew Moffitt at ARMS.
I believe in total between care & medications, I have spent somewhere near $20,000.00.
Describe Drew Moffitt's approach to eSET (elective single embryo transfer) vs. multiple embryo transfer at ARMS.
He prefers single transfer as often as possible. We forced his hand on a double transfer and he will not transfer more than two embryos at a time.
What specific things went wrong at ARMS?
- Failed to call with results
- Provided conflicting information
- Failed to convey critical information
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10
Age
28
Treated
2018
Success with this Doc
?
Treatment
—
Diagnosis
Male Factor
10
He [Dr. Moffitt] calls me personally to check and schedule appointments rather than the secretary. You can tell he really cares.... He had strong morals and I like that about him. His whole goal to to create families so he is very cafefull when discussing the “is it me or him?”. Rather than thinking that, he says that whatever the problem is... it is something that the couple goes through unitedly. He will help in anyway he can to get schedules to work out.
+ Read more
Age
28
Treated
2018
Success with this Doc
?
Race
European, Prefer not to answer
Income
$50K - $99K
Occupation
Accountant
Order & Number of Docs Seen
1 Doc Seen
Treatment
—
Diagnosis
Male Factor
10
How was your experience with Drew Moffitt at ARMS?
He had strong morals and I like that about him. His whole goal to to create families so he is very cafefull when discussing the “is it me or him?”. Rather than thinking that, he says that whatever the problem is... it is something that the couple goes through unitedly. He will help in anyway he can to get schedules to work out.
What's one piece of advice would you give a prospective patient of Drew Moffitt at ARMS?
Ask lots of questions. And he will answer them.
During treatment, were you treated like a number or a human with Drew Moffitt at ARMS?
He calls me personally to check and schedule appointments rather than the secretary. You can tell he really cares.
Describe your experience with the nursing staff.
The nurses are so sweet and I don’t feel anxious or embarrassed around them
Describe your experience with ARMS.
The only thing I would say is to make sure you know what your insurance does and does not cover but honestly this advice goes for any clinic you decide to attend. The clinic can schedule you in on short notice which is nice. Also, they work hard to make sure you know all the financial information before you undergo any treatment.
Describe the costs associated with your care under Drew Moffitt at ARMS.
If you’re in the Mesa Gilbert Phoenix area I feel like their prices are lower compared with surrounding Dr’s.
What specific things went wrong at ARMS?
- Failed to call in prescriptions to pharmacy
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3
Age
24
Treated
2017
Success with this Doc
?
Treatment
2 Fertility Medications
Diagnosis
Anovulation, Other
3
I wasnt a fan of Dr. Moffitt’s demeanor. He kicked back, crossed his legs tapping a pen on his chin. I felt spoken down to.... I was uncomfortable with my consultation. He did some blood work to see my ovarian reserve and I felt he was beating around the bush when giving me results. I felt judged being 25 and unmarried. He was pushy that IVF was my only option... He also told me to be sure I’m going to marry the guy I’m with before starting treatment which I don’t think a doctor should say.
+ Read more
Age
24
Treated
2017
Success with this Doc
?
Race
European, Other
Income
$50K - $99K
Occupation
—
Order & Number of Docs Seen
1st of 2 Docs
Treatment
2 Fertility Medications
Diagnosis
Anovulation, Other
3
How was your experience with Drew Moffitt at ARMS?
I was uncomfortable with my consultation. He did some blood work to see my ovarian reserve and I felt he was beating around the bush when giving me results. I felt judged being 25 and unmarried. He was pushy that IVF was my only option (which it wasn’t since I have a beautiful daughter from a clomid ministim provided at another fertility clinic). He also told me to be sure I’m going to marry the guy I’m with before starting treatment which I don’t think a doctor should say.
What's one piece of advice would you give a prospective patient of Drew Moffitt at ARMS?
Seek a second opinion.
During treatment, were you treated like a number or a human with Drew Moffitt at ARMS?
I wasnt a fan of Dr. Moffitt’s demeanor. He kicked back, crossed his legs tapping a pen on his chin. I felt spoken down to.
Describe your experience with the nursing staff.
I never saw nursing staff (at Gilbert location) except to take my blood. There was one girl at the desk who didn’t sit there all the time so you may arrive and not check in since no one is there.
Describe your experience with ARMS.
I’m not sure if the Gilbert location is just understaffed or what it is but it’s not cozy or welcoming at all. It’s a hole in the wall doctor office. Not being comfortable with the doctor you are trusting to build a family is crucial and I didn’t feel this way at this clinic.
Describe the costs associated with your care under Drew Moffitt at ARMS.
$100 ovarian assessment blood test that they don’t take insurance to cover.
What specific things went wrong at ARMS?
- Failed to call with results
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7
Age
25
Treated
2017
Success with this Doc
10 Eggs Frozen
Treatment
1 Egg Freezing
Diagnosis
—
7
He [Dr. Drew Moffitt] is a very dry person. He did not seem to speak much to me as a patient except at the consultation. He has a tendency to jump into things without giving you a simplified version. He is good at what he does though and maximized my egg retrival. Towards my egg retrieval day he was extremely friendly and had more of a helpful and excited tone... He wasn't very talkative and just did what he had to do, though, he always remembered my name.
+ Read more
Age
25
Treated
2017
Success with this Doc
10 Eggs Frozen
Race
European, Black or African-American
Income
$50K - $99K
Occupation
Sales Representative
Order & Number of Docs Seen
1st of 3 Docs
Treatment
1 Egg Freezing
Diagnosis
—
7
How was your experience with Drew Moffitt at ARMS?
He is a very dry person. He did not seem to speak much to me as a patient except at the consultation. He has a tendency to jump into things without giving you a simplified version. He is good at what he does though and maximized my egg retrival. Towards my egg retrieval day he was extremely friendly and had more of a helpful and excited tone.
What's one piece of advice would you give a prospective patient of Drew Moffitt at ARMS?
If you like to be walked through everything or have everything explained to you, he might not be the right doctor.
During treatment, were you treated like a number or a human with Drew Moffitt at ARMS?
He wasn't very talkative and just did what he had to do, though, he always remembered my name.
Describe the protocols Drew Moffitt used in your cycles at ARMS and their degree of success.
I had a total of 11 days of stims. He was able to retrieve 28 eggs.
Describe your experience with the nursing staff.
The nursing staff is amazing. My questions were usually answered through them. They were kind and usually remembered who I was. Cynthia remembered which arm for blood drawing and gave me tips on how to keep my blood flowing.
Describe your experience with ARMS.
I like just about everything. I just wish that my doctor was better at communication and less reserved,
Describe the costs associated with your care under Drew Moffitt at ARMS.
I have insurance and was able to pay 3200 out of pocket so far.
Describe Drew Moffitt's approach to eSET (elective single embryo transfer) vs. multiple embryo transfer at ARMS.
I like the fact that he likes to transfer two embryos.
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10
Age
25
Treated
2018
Success with this Doc
?
Treatment
—
Diagnosis
Recurrent Pregnancy Loss, Diminished Ovarian Reserve, Poor Egg Quality
10
He [Dr. Drew Moffitt] seemed very knowledgeable, which is why i’m flying from MT to AZ to see him. He wanted to know my whole story and what my thoughts and feelings were on everything. he went into great detail on everything....Ask questions, he will answer everything is great detail... he called me a couple of times after hours to answer my questions... They all seem to have good communication what I can tell so far.
+ Read more
Age
25
Treated
2018
Success with this Doc
?
Race
Other
Income
$0 - $49K
Occupation
—
Order & Number of Docs Seen
2nd of 2 Docs
Treatment
—
Diagnosis
Recurrent Pregnancy Loss, Diminished Ovarian Reserve, Poor Egg Quality
10
How was your experience with Drew Moffitt at ARMS?
He seemed very knowledgeable, which is why i’m flying from MT to AZ to see him. He wanted to know my whole story and what my thoughts and feelings were on everything. he went into great detail on everything.
What's one piece of advice would you give a prospective patient of Drew Moffitt at ARMS?
Ask questions, he will answer everything is great detail
During treatment, were you treated like a number or a human with Drew Moffitt at ARMS?
he called me a couple of times after hours to answer my questions
Describe your experience with your nurse at ARMS. (Assigned nurse: tabitha)
I absolutely love love love my nurse. she always replies to my emails. she talks to me like a human being not just a number. she allowed me to call after hours because my school schedule is crazy.
Describe your experience with ARMS.
They all seem to have good communication what I can tell so far. they are up to date on technology which I love. emails are sometimes easier. they always have answered the phone and called back if i needs further info. website is really organized
Describe the costs associated with your care under Drew Moffitt at ARMS.
We got an amazing first responder discount through them. the cost in AZ is half of what it is in MT. I will be paying the clinic $6000, plus whatever I have to pay the pharmacy for the meds
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9
Age
28
Treated
2017
Success with this Doc
Yes
Treatment
1 IVF
Diagnosis
Endometriosis
9
He [Dr. Drew Moffitt] is very good at what he does. I think his directness can be misconstrued as not caring. Once you get to know him he is a wonderful man and a great doctor. Every visit was great. He really took care of us.... Know what you are getting with doctor Moffitt. He is straight forward and probably more traditional.... They do a great job with “typical” IVF cases. I think Dr moffitt is great at what he does. The only hard part is that he can come off distant if you don’t take the time to get to know him. He was always very straight forward.
+ Read more
Age
28
Treated
2017
Success with this Doc
Yes
Race
European
Income
$50K - $99K
Occupation
—
Order & Number of Docs Seen
3rd of 3 Docs
Treatment
1 IVF
Diagnosis
Endometriosis
9
How was your experience with Drew Moffitt at ARMS?
He is very good at what he does. I think his directness can be misconstrued as not caring. Once you get to know him he is a wonderful man and a great doctor. Every visit was great. He really took care of us.
What's one piece of advice would you give a prospective patient of Drew Moffitt at ARMS?
Know what you are getting with doctor Moffitt. He is straight forward and probably more traditional.
During treatment, were you treated like a number or a human with Drew Moffitt at ARMS?
He was so kind. They followed up with us multiple times to see how baby was doing.
Describe your experience with the nursing staff.
The nurses were great they followed up and the one coordinating our IVF was amazing. However she left half way through which was scary. But the new one hat took over was great
Describe your experience with ARMS.
They do a great job with “typical” IVF cases. I think Dr moffitt is great at what he does. The only hard part is that he can come off distant if you don’t take the time to get to know him. He was always very straight forward.
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10
Age
39
Treated
2016
Success with this Doc
Yes
Treatment
1 IVF
Diagnosis
Anovulation
10
Dr. Moffitt is very good at what he does and I felt very comfortable going to his office. His strengths are his knowledge and understanding. He was available to me whenever I had a question about treatment and next steps. I would have liked to have been communicated with even more, as the whole process was new and I didn't always know what to expect.
+ Read more
Age
39
Treated
2016
Success with this Doc
Yes
Race
Other
Income
$100K - $199K
Occupation
Marketer or PR
Order & Number of Docs Seen
1 Doc Seen
Treatment
1 IVF
Diagnosis
Anovulation
10
How was your experience with Drew Moffitt at ARMS?
Dr. Moffitt is very good at what he does and I felt very comfortable going to his office. His strengths are his knowledge and understanding. He was available to me whenever I had a question about treatment and next steps. I would have liked to have been communicated with even more, as the whole process was new and I didn't always know what to expect.
What's one piece of advice would you give a prospective patient of Drew Moffitt at ARMS?
Ask a ton of questions. He has a lot of great knowledge about the process.
During treatment, were you treated like a number or a human with Drew Moffitt at ARMS?
Dr. Moffitt explained his own struggle with fertility and how it influenced why he got into his practice. He was very methodical, but always treated me like a real person, not a number.
Describe your experience with your nurse at ARMS. (Assigned nurse: Juanita and Shayna)
I LOVED both Juanita and Shayna. Juanita especially was just awesome. Completely compassionate, gave explanations when I needed it, went above and beyond to help me through the process. She made my experience a wonderful one.
Describe the costs associated with your care under Drew Moffitt at ARMS.
Around $15,000
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8
Age
31
Treated
2014
Success with this Doc
Yes
Treatment
IUI, 1 IVF
Diagnosis
Unexplained
8
Dr Moffit seemed very well informed and I was confident in his abilities. He took a lot of time with us in our initial appointments and I felt that I could trust his recommendations. He was nice but not overly friendly....Didn't really have any kind of relationship or connection with the doctor or staff. It felt more like a process of checking boxes and following directions on a piece of paper rather than having felt like I was well informed and having people guide me through the process.
+ Read more
Age
31
Treated
2014
Success with this Doc
Yes
Race
Latino
Income
$50K - $99K
Occupation
Nurse or HC Services
Order & Number of Docs Seen
1 Doc Seen
Treatment
IUI, 1 IVF
Diagnosis
Unexplained
8
How was your experience with Drew Moffitt at ARMS?
Dr Moffit seemed very well informed and I was confident in his abilities. He took a lot of time with us in our initial appointments and I felt that I could trust his recommendations. He was nice but not overly friendly.
What's one piece of advice would you give a prospective patient of Drew Moffitt at ARMS?
Ask questions and be informed.
During treatment, were you treated like a number or a human with Drew Moffitt at ARMS?
Didn't really have any kind of relationship or connection with the doctor or staff. It felt more like a process of checking boxes and following directions on a piece of paper rather than having felt like I was well informed and having people guide me through the process. And maybe that's because it was such an overwhelming process for me and I didn't really know what to say or ask. I know many other patients who loved the staff and had a better experience so I can't help but wonder if it was just me.
Describe your experience with your nurse at ARMS.
They were wonderful and seemed to genuinely care about me and the practice.
Describe Drew Moffitt's approach to eSET (elective single embryo transfer) vs. multiple embryo transfer at ARMS.
Dr Moffit strongly recommended a singleton transfer in my case. He was informative and I felt he knew what was best in my situation and I did not worry I was making the wrong decision in just transferring one embryo.
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10
Age
21
Treated
2016
Success with this Doc
Yes
Treatment
3 Fertility Medications
Diagnosis
Recurrent Pregnancy Loss, PCOS
10
He is a kind helpful man who in the end helped us have a family. Dr Moffitt helped us more then we could ever explain and we will come back again with number two. He was very knowledgeable and understanding that we had questions and needed help finding the answers. He was rarely late and always had general hands...He always listened and made us feel welcomed in the office [ARMS]. We were new to a diagnosis and new to feeling the pain of losing a child. He never once made me feel rushed and always had me leave feeling full of information
+ Read more
Age
21
Treated
2016
Success with this Doc
Yes
Race
European
Income
$50K - $99K
Occupation
Sales Representative
Order & Number of Docs Seen
1 Doc Seen
Treatment
3 Fertility Medications
Diagnosis
Recurrent Pregnancy Loss, PCOS
10
How was your experience with Drew Moffitt at ARMS?
He is a kind helpful man who in the end helped us have a family. Dr Moffitt helped us more then we could ever explain and we will come back again with number two. He was very knowledgeable and understanding that we had questions and needed help finding the answers. He was rarely late and always had general hands
What's one piece of advice would you give a prospective patient of Drew Moffitt at ARMS?
Be patient, it's not going to happen over one night
During treatment, were you treated like a number or a human with Drew Moffitt at ARMS?
He always listened and made us feel welcomed in the office. We were new to a diagnosis and new to feeling the pain of losing a child. He never once made me feel rushed and always had me leave feeling full of information
What specific things went wrong at ARMS?
- Provided conflicting information
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